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Whoa! Era si timpul.

100% au fost fortati, nu bagau ei asta de capul lor

Could Steam's refund policy have a weird effect on game design?

Adevărul e că decizia asta miroase dubios de mult a răscumpărare. Ceva care favorizează mai mult decât e cazul cumpărătorii (și Valve desigur, ei pierd fix nimic), iar lumea a uitat deja cretinismul cu MOD-urile. Sincer să fiu, preferam ceva ca pe Origin pentru că spre deosebire de GoG, nu am încredere în Valve și modul în care va penaliza abuzurile.

Hai sa fim seriosi, daca cineva vrea sa joace pe gratis un joc indie pe care il poti termina in jumatate de ora, il poate pirata si gata. De ce sa isi lege banii de steam wallet daca tot nu vrea sa "piarda" bani?

Dreptul de refund este garantat de lege in Uniunea Europeana, de ce jocurile video ar face nota discordanta? Pana la urma de asta au bagat refund policy-ul asta, ca ii pastea un proces pe care nu l-ar fi castigat. Si povestile astea cu "o nu, acuma ne vom concentra pe primele 2 ore mai mult" sunt spuse de parca asta nu se intampla deja, cu design gandit sa ia ochii jurnalistilor care nu au timp sa termine un joc intreg. Unii din dev-ii astia indie au impresia ca daca au muncit la un joc au un drept divin la vanzari si aprecierea clientilor. Nu, daca faci un joc bun vei avea vanzari, daca faci un joc bun vei avea mai putin clienti nemultumiti dispusi sa apeleze la refund. Sa te superi ca scade riscul de buyer`s remorse e o atitudine super anticonsumator si eu nu pot sa fiu de acord cu asa ceva.

Măi, hai să nu ne lăsăm duși cu turma atât de ușor. Politica de refund implementată de Steam și cea Origin/GoG/Uplay sunt două chestii radical diferite. Obligați? Îi păștea un proces? Are you for real? Ei nu oferă clienților refund, și-au încordat mușchii și au forțat dezvoltatorii să facă asta. Banii ăia rămân la Valve, se cheltuie prin Steam. Ba chiar în funcție de cum îi cheltui ajung să câștige tot ei bani în plus de pe urma refund-ului.

Nu știu de ce-mi spui de dreptul de refund, ce legătură are asta cu ce-am zis eu? Da, normal că trebuie să existe această opțiune.

Da, ii pastea un proces pentru ca incalcau reglementarile europene in privinta comertului online. Da, logic ca au trebuit sa ii forteze pe devi sa accepte noua politica, nici nu am presupus altceva.

Problema mea e stilul asta de plans de mila al indie dev-ilor care ignora lucruri bazice gen drepturile consumatorilor. Serios, daca tu ca dev esti inspaimantat ca in 2 ore ti se va juca tot jocul, nu la consumator e problema.

Cam ratezi ideea. Dacă tu ca dev ești înspăimântat că în 2 ore ți se va juca jocul de 2 ore... what the fuck is the problem? Dar lăsând asta deoparte, gândește-te că mare parte din vânzările ce se fac pe Steam n-au legătură cu jocurile, se practică un whoring legendar, acum făcut și mai convenabil. Îmi doresc foarte mult să existe posibilitatea de refund la orice, dar modul în care au ales Valve să o implementeze e de căcat. Mai ales când la o aruncătură de băț ai alții care au făcut-o cum trebuie.

Dar na, din perspectiva lor e genială treaba, deci nu-i poți acuza de prostie.

La ce te referi prin whoring? Ca iei jocul, il joci o ora si ceva, ii dai refund si pe urma iti raman banii tot in magazinul lui Valve? Daca ai apucaturi d-astea e mult mai convenabil sa piratezi.

Dacă trăiești într-o lume în care vânzările pe Steam nu sunt puternic influențate de achievements, cărți, icoane, iteme și alte căcaturi... da. De fapt, nici atunci, nu cred că piratatul mai e ceva foarte relvant printre majoritatea utilizatorilor Steam (sau în general, cine mama naibii mai piratează jocuri).

Tot nu înțelegi unde bat. E incredibil de avantajos pentru cumpărător și la fel de dezavantajos pentru dezvoltator, în timp ce Valve nu prea are cum să piardă. Lumea va cere în mod intenționat refund to wallet pentru că e vorba de bani ce intenționau să-i cheltuie pe Steam. Producătorii nu pot vota împotriva acestei modalități de refund la jocurile lor, so... yeah. Heck, ideea că iei un joc și ceri refund o săptămână mai târziu când e la sale e perversă. Pentru că atunci 100% vei cheltui banii tot pe Steam, dar producătorul îți va vinde jocul la un preț mai mic, just cause.

Vorbești de protecția consumatorului, dar protecția producătorilor indie față de Valve unde e?

Achievment-urile sunt cvasi irelevante intr-o lume in care exista SAM insa. Ai dreptate cu cards (desi costa prea putin ca sa merite efortul sa farmezi ca disperatul, mai ales ca TOATE jocurile le au) insa.

Refund-urile nu se puteau face doar pe Steam Wallet? Nici nu am spus ca Valve pierde ceva din toata afacerea asta, asta e logic. Eu nu sunt asa de categoric la refund-urile pentru sale, eu zic ca ar putea reduce intervalul de refund in contextul asta dar in principiu mi se pare o chestie ok si afecteaza mult perioadele de sale-uri masive cand multi asteptau pana in ultimul minut sa cumpere ceva ca sa nu se "friga" cu un joc care intra la sale si mai mare a doua zi dupa achizitie. Cel mult asta o sa insemne mai putine sale-uri in restul anului, dar aici vorbim oricum de jocuri ieftine si nu de 60 dolari la pret intreg.

Eu oricum cred ca devii sunt mult mai protejati pe Steam decat ce li se poate oferi pe alte platforme (ma refer aici la console). Nu trebuie sa vireze bani pentru a li se aproba update-urile (stiu ca la PS3 si X360 asa se intampla, nu sunt sigur la generatia actuala), nu trebuie sa astepte perioade enorme de aprobare pentru publicarea jocului si patch-urilor, isi pot pune ce pret vor ei si tot ei isi seteaza sale-urile, la care se adauga expunerea (ciobita de deschiderea portilor ce-i drept). Da, se poate mai bine, dar in prezent nu stiu cine le poate oferi conditii mai bune. Dar mie tot aiurea mi se pare sa fii dev si sa te plangi ca nu mai exista buyer`s remorse si sa iti faci scenarii cu legiuni de oameni care "pirateaza" jocuri prin Steam.

DarthZombie » 06 Jun 2015, 11:44 wrote:Achievment-urile sunt cvasi irelevante intr-o lume in care exista SAM insa. Ai dreptate cu cards (desi costa prea putin ca sa merite efortul sa farmezi ca disperatul, mai ales ca TOATE jocurile le au) insa.

Ce zici tu nu reflectă însă modul în care gândește majoritatea. Degeaba există SAM, enorm de multă lume farmează anyway și așa mai departe. Dă pe forumurile Steam dacă vrei să te convingi. Mă rog, asta le convenea și producătorilor până la urmă, ce încercam eu să-ți zic e că în realitate chestii ca ”faci joc bun se vinde, nu faci, nu” nu se regăsesc, ci există o groază de alți factori care influențează vânzările.

DarthZombie » 06 Jun 2015, 11:44 wrote: Refund-urile nu se puteau face doar pe Steam Wallet?.

Nu, dacă era așa atunci nu mai era refund deloc și ce zici tu despre obligații legale probabil că i-ar fi împiedicat să facă asta.

DarthZombie » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:44 am wrote: Refund-urile nu se puteau face doar pe Steam Wallet?

Citisem in acel regulament de refund ca poti opta sa-ti fie virati banii si direct in contul din care ai facut plata.

You will receive the refund in Steam Wallet funds or through the same payment method you used to make the purchase. If, for any reason, Steam is unable to issue a refund via your initial payment method, your Steam Wallet will be credited the full amount. (Some payment methods available through Steam in your country may not support refunding a purchase back to the original payment method.

Acuma na Au cam lalait-o dar ideea e ca daca ai noroc poti primi refund direct in contul din care ai facut plata.

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/indie-dev ... ir-claims/

^ si un material video care demonteaza articolul din dsogaming

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gg volvo
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Am observat ca in sesiunea "mea" si a anumitor prieteni nu pot sa dau join orice as face, la alti preteni din lista intra instant tot timpul.